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WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby maurisap » June 14th, 2010, 10:35 pm

I still don't get it. I just don't. As much as Mulder relied on Scully, trusted Scully, loved Scully, HOW could he immediately believe in Fowley?
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby Menagerie » June 14th, 2010, 11:55 pm

Why does a son still see the good in an abusive and forsaking mother? Why do childhood friends of severe criminals seem perplexed when a person grows up to commit heinous acts?

The answer is easier than we might think: The familiar past viewed through rose-colored glasses. I think that Mulder trusted Fowley because she was familiar and his foul memories of her had, over time, become less painful. He forgot some of the sting and remembered some of the good: that she had accepted him even as an awkward new agent, that she seemed to know so much more due to her experience, that she, an older and more valued agent, took time to listen to his crazy ideas. She was, perhaps, like the senior girlfriend he never had as a high school freshman. You know the story: a mildly attractive graduating high school senior may be dull to other boys in her grade but seems like the all-knowing, divine Venus to the awkward, nerdy high school freshman boy. So she takes on the freshie as a boyfriend for a year because he'll accept her and fan her ego. When she graduates she dumps him, but he still regards it as his relational awakening because, after all, he must have been some hot stuff to snag a senior girl! The sting of her departure is soothed by the fact that she seemed so great at the time.

I think that Mulder probably held a grudge over Fowley's escape for a long time but over time those wounds fade and her excuses became more justifiable. Now that he had a partner, he found that sometimes he wanted to ditch her (Scully) too - for her safety, for his particular interest, because he feared she wouldn't believe. Perhaps he began to think that Fowley left him for the same sort of reasons - an extra-big ditch necessary to fight terrorism. And although he likely felt that he would never heal at first, he HAD built his dream career and was doing what he wanted with a beautiful woman he loved. His career and his relational life were doing pretty good, all things (and especially Fowley's orginal ditch) considered.

So Fowely's leaving didn't destroy him in the way that he imagined. He has no real reason to seek revenge and looking back he can justify her actions based on the fact that at the time she seemed pretty cool. She's still the girl next door, the girl that he doesn't love now but used to have a crush on. He feels warmly towards her just because she's a part of his past and the wounds she left don't seem so horrible anymore.

I think because Mulder has had such a horrible past, he tries to hold on to the parts that were fairly good. His home life was terrible, Phoebe ruined his Oxford experience (although he seems to see her through rose-colored glasses too until she proves herself a shrew) His friendly actions towards Phoebe and Diana seem to me to be his attempts to reclaim those portions of his life, to see one little part of his past as happy. If he can see a pattern of improvement in his past, it shows that he has gone uphill from Samantha. He may also subconciously desire to prove to himself that he CAN get along with women partners because on some level he's afraid of making Scully leave in the same way.

So I think we may be able to trace this partially to Mulder's general optimism about people he likes, or once liked, partially to his feeling pretty good about his current life, partially to his desire to repaint the past as cheerful and progressive, and even partially (as always) to his inferiority complex. If he can prove to himself that he can rekindle friendship with Phoebe (and especially Diana, who filled a role similar to Scully) then he can assure himself that his partnership with Scully is not doomed to fail. When a man lives a life of running, hiding, investigating, poking, prying, and generally upsetting the powers that be, he likes to make sure that he has a good track record of stablizing every possible piece of himself and his past.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 15th, 2010, 8:14 am

Menagerie,

Great post, we have missed your postings for such a long time. Please continue posting in all topics, especially in the Relationship sections. They are thoughtful, insightful and wonderful to read.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 15th, 2010, 10:52 am

Well I think Mulder saw a lot in Diana Fowley, first she might have been the first women that Mulder really fell head over heals in love with and both seemed to trust each other. I really think Fowley was an excellent psychological manipulator and really knew how to play with Mulder’s innermost insecurities. Plus, Fowley was an older woman with much more experience in the relationship arena, well to put it bluntly, I think Fowley was very experienced in the bedroom, and believe me I’m getting sick just thinking about it.

Now I’ve got to admit that Diana Fowley is fairly attractive, and I’ll say it again, I think she’s Mulder’s type of women. Fowley’s got long beautiful legs, has a nice figure, shes a brunette, she’s a believer and she’s in love with Mulder. My only proof of this fact is when Fowley admits to Mulder in Amor Fati that she’s in love with him and that they can now be together, I about puked when I heard that line. So what does Mulder see in Fowley, well I’ve got the feeling that Fowley was Mulder’s first true love and Mulder sensed or saw only good things in her, as he was able to block out all of Fowley’s dirty little secrets and faults. Mulder just sees the wonderful past they had together and senses that Fowley’s that same person.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby maurisap » June 15th, 2010, 10:26 pm

See, I don't understand the timing for one thing.

In season one "Fire," Mulder talked about Phoebe and how ten years ago he'd been in a relationship with her that ended poorly. He said, "It [his humor] was one of the few things you didn't drive a stake through."

So that was 1993...so 1983 is the time period he is mentioning. So Where did this big love for Fowley come in? Was this a rebound relationship? And if he'd been gutted twice in a relationship (Green and Fowley), then I don't buy the argument that Fowley was familiar and trusted. I acknowledge that there was probably a link between the two of them from working on paranormal cases together.

But I also think Mulder should have been wiser. Scully is his touchstone--why would he turn from her and look to Fowley? It still makes no sense to me.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby GillyDreamer78 » June 16th, 2010, 7:55 am

maurisap wrote:See, I don't understand the timing for one thing.

In season one "Fire," Mulder talked about Phoebe and how ten years ago he'd been in a relationship with her that ended poorly. He said, "It [his humor] was one of the few things you didn't drive a stake through."

So that was 1993...so 1983 is the time period he is mentioning. So Where did this big love for Fowley come in? Was this a rebound relationship? And if he'd been gutted twice in a relationship (Green and Fowley), then I don't buy the argument that Fowley was familiar and trusted. I acknowledge that there was probably a link between the two of them from working on paranormal cases together.

But I also think Mulder should have been wiser. Scully is his touchstone--why would he turn from her and look to Fowley? It still makes no sense to me.


I read about that on one other site, about this timing thing and it really makes no sence if you think about it.
And how could have Mulder trusted Diana?? This will never make any sense to me. I will never understand how could he treated Scully the way he did in "One son" and trusted Diana. Not after everything he had been trough with Scully and everything she had done for him.

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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 16th, 2010, 8:23 am

Okay, let's talk about the timing thing. Mulder attended the University of Oxford in Oxford, England from 1983 until 1986. It was while at Oxford that he got to know and went out with Phoebe Green, who later became an Inspector at Scotland Yard in London, England. If Mulder met Phoebe Green in 1983 and I'm not sure how long the relationship lasted, but let's just say a couple of years. Well Mulder would have been a free man after graduating in 1986. In 1986 Mulder joined the FBI after returning home from England. He first trained with the Investigative Support Unit (ISU) after graduating from Quantico (FBI training academy), under Bill Patterson. In 1988 Mulder was assigned to the Violent Crimes Section. Mulder could have met Diana Fowley anytime between 1986 and 1993, when Mulder finally partners with Scully in 1993. So from 1986 to 1993, Mulder could have been involved with Diana Fowley during this period.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby GillyDreamer78 » June 16th, 2010, 8:35 am

SpecialAgent88 wrote:Okay, let's talk about the timing thing. Mulder attended the University of Oxford in Oxford, England from 1983 until 1986. It was while at Oxford that he got to know and went out with Phoebe Green, who later became an Inspector at Scotland Yard in London, England. If Mulder met Phoebe Green in 1983 and I'm not sure how long the relationship lasted, but let's just say a couple of years. Well Mulder would have been a free man after graduating in 1986. In 1986 Mulder joined the FBI after returning home from England. He first trained with the Investigative Support Unit (ISU) after graduating from Quantico (FBI training academy), under Bill Patterson. In 1988 Mulder was assigned to the Violent Crimes Section. Mulder could have met Diana Fowley anytime between 1986 and 1993, when Mulder finally partners with Scully in 1993. So from 1986 to 1993, Mulder could have been involved with Diana Fowley during this period.


Thank you for that SA88. But didn't Mulder discovered X-files with Diana? When did that happened? I assume he wasn't involved with her for so long. And when did Diana leave him? Sorry, I'm a bad phile for not knowing that but I'm not very good with dates and that kind of stuff.

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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby GillyDreamer78 » June 16th, 2010, 1:50 pm

Here is what someone said on livejournal about whole Diana issue:

The whole Diana story is lacking in cohesiveness. Frohike claims Diana was Mulder's "chickadee" when he got out of the Academy; however in the same episode we find out that Diana didn't join the Bureau until 1991, and Mulder graduated from the Academy in the 1980's -- probably in 1986, but I'm not completely sure. And the other thing I could never figure out: if Diana supposedly worked on the X-Files with Mulder (they never exactly made it clear that they were partners -- it's possible Diana was just helping Mulder with his investigations, but not in an official sense), wouldn't her name turn up in the old reports, which Scully would have read, meaning her complete ignorance as to who Diana was is somewhat unbelievable? Furthermore, wouldn't other people at the FBI remember Diana and be able to tell Scully who she was so Scully wouldn't have to rely on the Lone Gunmen's vagueness and Mulder's ridiculous inability to admit that he used to have a girlfriend?

Here is the link so you can read everything. The original post talks about Pilot episode.

http://community.livejournal.com/xfiles/2450953.html

You have to admit SA88, this is all very confusing, the timing i mean. Not to mention that The Pilot epi was set in 1992.

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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 16th, 2010, 7:21 pm

Yes, GD78 this is rather confusing, does anyone else have an opinion on when Mulder and Fowley were involved?
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby maurisap » June 16th, 2010, 8:14 pm

Hmmm

According to http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Diana_Fowley

"In 1991 Diana Fowley was working as a Special Agent at the FBI in Washington, D.C.. While there she and Fox Mulder met, dated and discovered the X-Files together. Since she had a background in parasychology, Diana was much more open to the ideas and phenomena the X-Files covered than Scully. She and Mulder's relationship ended when she took an assignment in Europe, where she claimed she was working as part of the FBI's foreign counter-terrorism unit. Her role in discovering the X-Files is unclear and is based on an account by the Lone Gunmen. It is further confused by the fact that the episode 'Travelers' indicates that Mulder had at least heard of the X-Files prior to the events Byers and Langley described.
Diana returned to the FBI in 1998 as a part of the team investigating Gibson Praise, led by Agent Jeffrey Spender."

So where did wikia get 1991 as a date?
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby maurisap » June 16th, 2010, 8:15 pm

Maybe "discovered the xfiles" meant that they located where the actual files were kept, that the xfiles wasn't just a myth in the FBI?
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 16th, 2010, 8:29 pm

maurisap wrote:Hmmm

According to http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Diana_Fowley

"In 1991 Diana Fowley was working as a Special Agent at the FBI in Washington, D.C.. While there she and Fox Mulder met, dated and discovered the X-Files together. Since she had a background in parasychology, Diana was much more open to the ideas and phenomena the X-Files covered than Scully. She and Mulder's relationship ended when she took an assignment in Europe, where she claimed she was working as part of the FBI's foreign counter-terrorism unit. Her role in discovering the X-Files is unclear and is based on an account by the Lone Gunmen. It is further confused by the fact that the episode 'Travelers' indicates that Mulder had at least heard of the X-Files prior to the events Byers and Langley described.
Diana returned to the FBI in 1998 as a part of the team investigating Gibson Praise, led by Agent Jeffrey Spender."

So where did wikia get 1991 as a date?


Okay, I'm going to chime in once again. Now Fowley joined the FBI in 1991 and maybe met Mulder very early in 1991; Mulder and Fowley could have been in a relationship from 1991 until the time Mulder meets Scully. Or how do we even know that they were not seeing each other even after Mulder meets Scully? I guess they could have been seeing each other from 1991 until the time Fowley leaves for Europe.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 16th, 2010, 8:32 pm

maurisap wrote:Maybe "discovered the xfiles" meant that they located where the actual files were kept, that the xfiles wasn't just a myth in the FBI?


I agree, discovered the xfiles has many meanings, it could be they just located the files and looked through them.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby beekiller » June 26th, 2010, 2:09 pm

Well, I don't know about any of the timing...frankly, I don't care. As we all know, the XF creative team's forte has never been timeline. Lest we forget that Scully was pregnant for an entire year!

I think the WHY of Diana Fowley is a lot more important than the WHEN. And here's my theory. I don't think it's just one contributing factor; it's several, including but not limited to:

1. Mulder is afraid of consummating his relationship with Scully in a romantic way. I don't really know why (that's definitely a topic for a separate thread!), but the fact remains that there's some reticence from both of them to express their love for each other in any manner other than platonic. And, like most people, he's nervous about being the person to "make the first move." I think that when Diana comes back and exhibits clear romantic interest in Mulder, he responds to it simply because it's unambiguous and he doesn't have to worry about screwing it up.

2. It's very difficult when you've been in a particular relationship with someone for a long time, to see them again and not behave in the same way towards them. The relationship's patterns are already established, and we humans are creatures of habit. We have conditioned responses to certain people because they are ingrained in our behavior, not because they are warranted by any of the present circumstances. For example, when I visit my parents, they start trying to assign me curfews, even though I'm an adult and have been for quite some time. Oddly enough, I don't question their edicts, because the last time I was in that house, sleeping in that room and living in that town, I was seventeen years old and they had the right to make such proclaimations. Since Fowley was a girlfriend before, and he hasn't really seen her out of those circumstances, when she returns they naturally behave towards each other in the same way.

3. A slightly controversial possible reason--SUBCONSCIOUSLY, Mulder is trying to make Scully jealous to see if his romantic feelings for her are returned. Diana is a ready-made catalyst; Mulder doesn't actually have to DO anything to provoke Diana's interest. I don't think that Mulder would be adolescent enough to actually attempt to induce jealous behavior in Scully by flirting with Diana, and if you watch closely, he doesn't. All Mulder ever does romantically towards Diana is respond to her--he doesn't initiate. Perhaps in his fear of making the first move, he decides to test Scully's possessiveness towards him. Unfortunately, his subconscious is rather stupid and tests her over and over again, trying to make her say something that undeniably proves her love before it decides that she is indeed acting jealous.

4. As humans, we take for granted the people we know will love us unconditionally. Instead of treating those relationships with the greatest care imaginable because they are the most important to us, we abuse them by taking advantage of their constancy. Mulder knows that Scully will trust and love him (AT LEAST platonically) no matter what. He really couldn't do anything to make her leave; at this point in the series, they're emotionally tethered together. He knows that Scully doesn't trust Diana, and he wants to trust Diana because she might know something that could help him on his quest, but he has to put his faith in her to get it. So instead of examining the thoughts and feelings of the one he trusts the most, Mulder disregards them, knowing that Scully will always be there if he's wrong. That's a damn good thing, because as it turns out he really needs her when Diana allows him to be sold into brain surgery by the neo-Syndicate. I think THAT'S what Mulder comes to realize at the end of Amor Fati--the whole "my constant, my touchstone" speech means that he's realized that he should treasure his relationship with Scully because she will never forsake him. I really would have liked it if he'd gotten that through his head a little sooner, but EVERYONE does this at some point, and we very rarely realize it until after the fact.

So, I think those are a few of the things that Mulder saw in Diana. All the things I just named, I actually have experience with first-hand and I'm sure that you all do too. So we know that the phenomena are real. Mulder is only human...

But just to clarify, that doesn't mean I think he was behaving acceptably. And it SURE doesn't mean I would take the time to pee on Diana if she were on fire. Ho-bag.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » June 26th, 2010, 8:23 pm

Interesting point of view beekiller, thanks for sharing.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby luv2luvduchovny » September 21st, 2010, 3:27 pm

He was forced into it...by the writers! :lol:

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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » September 22nd, 2010, 7:40 am

luv, that is a great short answer and you are right.

I thought Mimi Rogers was excellent in her role as Diana Fowley, otherwise why would we still be talking about her to this day. Fowley made Scully realize her true feelings for Mulder, after seeing them together holding hands in the hospital room. One of the best scenes in the entire series was Scully trying to piece together her feeling about Mulder as she walks past them in the hospital room and goes back to her car. Gillian Anderson nailed that car scene in my opinion.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby beekiller » September 22nd, 2010, 5:43 pm

SA88, I think you're absolutely right about both of those actresses' performances.

Mimi Rogers managed to become one of the most hated and hotly debated characters in TV history, making an appearance in fewer than 20 scenes. She must have done something right! She's a really smart cookie. Did anybody know she was a member of MENSA?

As far as the other is concerned, does Gillian Anderson ever NOT nail a scene? That scene is really a testament to her superior acting skills, beyond the obvious reasons. The X-Files frequently had to cut scripts and scenes to make the episode fit in a one-hour TV slot, and could almost never allow on-screen time that wasn't at least partially related to the complicated plots. It's kind of incredible that on such a fast-paced and plot driven show, she got so much screen time to do one scene that was by herself, completely nonverbal and whose only purpose was to reveal a character's feelings. Watch for another scene like that in TV history. I can name maybe two. I'll say it before and I'll say it again: she's the most underrated actress of the 21st century...I wanna have her babies.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby SpecialAgent88 » September 22nd, 2010, 7:17 pm

Excellent post beekiller and I agree with you 100% that Gillian Anderson is the most underrated actress of the 21st century. And yes, I knew that Mimi Rogers was a member of MENSA, which is a society of members with a high IQ.
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby gorgclaud » January 7th, 2011, 5:36 am

luv2luvduchovny wrote:He was forced into it...by the writers! :lol:

:o


yeah exactly. Theres not a lot of point thinking too deeply on this, cause 1. Chris Carter always fails at keeping the timeline right or sticking to a consistant storyline or character personality...but mainly 2. it was really only done to create tension with Mulder and Scully, thus having Scully think differently about Mulder in The End, thus leading to certain romantic events in Fight The Future. It was only cause FTF was written before season 5, yet was meant to take place after season 5. I always find it silly that Diana is not mentioned in the film (of course technically she probably wasnt even thought of when the film was made)...or even Krycek being out of the film, when both of those characters were in The End quite a bit...even Gibson Praise. I love FTF, but the timeline is just bad writing.

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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby LondonLady » September 4th, 2012, 8:17 pm

beekiller wrote:...Mimi Rogers managed to become one of the most hated and hotly debated characters in TV history, making an appearance in fewer than 20 scenes. She must have done something right! She's a really smart cookie. Did anybody know she was a member of MENSA?

Wow. I didn't know that. Well, she was clever enough to leave Scientology!
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Re: WHAT did Mulder see in Fowley?

Postby LondonLady » September 4th, 2012, 8:20 pm

Very interesting topic. I think that I like these two explanations best regarding the timing:

SpecialAgent88 wrote:Okay, let's talk about the timing thing. Mulder attended the University of Oxford in Oxford, England from 1983 until 1986. It was while at Oxford that he got to know and went out with Phoebe Green, who later became an Inspector at Scotland Yard in London, England. If Mulder met Phoebe Green in 1983 and I'm not sure how long the relationship lasted, but let's just say a couple of years. Well Mulder would have been a free man after graduating in 1986. In 1986 Mulder joined the FBI after returning home from England. He first trained with the Investigative Support Unit (ISU) after graduating from Quantico (FBI training academy), under Bill Patterson. In 1988 Mulder was assigned to the Violent Crimes Section. Mulder could have met Diana Fowley anytime between 1986 and 1993, when Mulder finally partners with Scully in 1993. So from 1986 to 1993, Mulder could have been involved with Diana Fowley during this period.

and
SpecialAgent88 wrote:Okay, I'm going to chime in once again. Now Fowley joined the FBI in 1991 and maybe met Mulder very early in 1991; Mulder and Fowley could have been in a relationship from 1991 until the time Mulder meets Scully. Or how do we even know that they were not seeing each other even after Mulder meets Scully? I guess they could have been seeing each other from 1991 until the time Fowley leaves for Europe.
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