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Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 11th, 2016, 6:44 pm

I tried to respond over on Eat the Corn (the best XF Mythology site on the net), but three times I get an error message that reads:

Your location has been identified as part of a reported spam network. Comments have been disabled to prevent spam.

My response was long enough that I didn't want to try to retype it again.

So for Orodromeus (as I figure he will eventually visit this site), here's my comments in regards to "My Struggle":

Great stuff (as always on this site). Before today, I'd never realized that the alien crash (which I thought looked amazing) might be something other than Roswell. I didn't feel it looked like CGI at all; rather I thought their decision to use actual sets (a real, life-sized UFO in the Canadian wilderness) paid off with a spectacular set.

I'm still a bit worried that CC has just decided to reboot the Mythology, knowing that more than 99% of people wouldn't even realize it. It's clear to me from much of the recent press (like an article in our local paper) that most people out there barely remember anything but the basics regarding the show.

Still, it would be sad if he threw out all that's come before. What of the 'hidden' portion of the FTF CD, where Carter himself narrated the entire Syndicate/Purity conspiracy? What of the scenes at the start of FTF, where we saw Neanderthals overcome by Black Oil? So much of the old show would be completely undone, if this "new twist" ended up being the real story.

More likely, I think CC is shooting for that same feel that he captured in the 90s, what orodromeus references as that Lovecraftian unsureness and mystery, where something sinister is going on beyond what the common man can understand. That government and people in power cannot be trusted, and massive conspiracies are taking place all around us. I'm still hopeful that "My Struggle II" will show that much of this is the typical TXF red herrings. How exactly will Monica Reyes factor into things? I think from the little snippets they've revealed so far it's quite likely that she's the woman who is working with CSM (probably against her will).

So far I've still greatly enjoyed things, and I hope that it's not just a giant reboot. It's been strange how S8 and S9 seem to have been left behind, as if on the cutting room floor, yet there is this thread about William that runs through every episode.

Thanks (as always) for the excellent analysis!
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby orodromeus » February 15th, 2016, 12:42 pm

Thanks! And until I resolve this odd commenting issue (I PM'd you):

1947 crash: Don’t misunderstand me, the production design is terrific! What I meant is that XF hadn't used us to showing so much. Usually it was half-hidden, or guessed at, or it was left ambiguous as to what we had seen, it suggested more than it showed. I think this mysterious quality is what made the show, whereas here there is no mystery, it's in plain sight.

It's clear that most people don't remember specifics about the mythology. But what made its beauty is that if you wanted to you could dig deeper and find meaning, it was not hazy for haziness's sake. I have high hopes that it will all end up making sense with coherence with what came before -- but I agree with you, Carter has said in interviews that he wanted to simplify the mythology for new viewers. Let's wait for My Struggle II.

Anyone who has watched the old series must know not to take everything at face value and I do think that Tad O'Malley and the old informant don't hold the whole truth either. Again with the "Lovecraftian": uncertainty is what a lot of XF was about, and My Struggle unsettled what we held as truth for a good while. For generating that most XF-like of feelings, My Struggle was a success!
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 16th, 2016, 5:50 pm

Thanks, oro! I'll try to post on your website from home, to see if that clears up the problem.

I sure hope you're right about MSII. :)

I'm going to quote a friend of mine from a non-XF gaming (tabletop RPG) forum, as I think his posts there sum up well what so many of the "masses" feel (or remember) about the show:

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think I remember Doug mentioning here in passing once that he was/is a big fan of the "X-Files."

I liked it well enough but it never hooked me. When it first started airing on TV, I was still in law school and one of my three roommates loved it. We would watch it over beers before going out for the night. I remember it fondly as a result, and probably saw most (and maybe all) of the episodes from the first two seasons. But after I graduated I moved on. I think the last X-Files I ever watched until a few weeks ago was the first movie. I lost touch with the show and was left at the time with the lingering impression that, frustratingly, it never seemed to take a firm position on whether events were a result of oddball science/medicine, or aliens, or a sinister government conspiracy. That being said, I have no idea whether that was cleared up later.

So then these new episodes were teased. I DVR'd and watched the second X-Files film from a few years ago, which I actually really enjoyed. (Though I really like Billy Connolly - so that may've influenced me.)

And I DVR'd these new episodes, four of six of which have now aired. I've liked them. I liked how they had aged the characters and they had each evolved as people. I liked that the two leads still seemed to have a unique chemistry. And I really loved the episode about the lizard man dressed like Kolchak.

But I'm curious about what others think, especially Doug....
____________________________________________________________

Then after I replied, he posted again with this:

_______________________________________________________________

I'm glad to hear that these new "X-Files" episodes are getting good ratings, Doug!. I'd certainly watch more of them in the future if they were made. It's also interesting to hear that the new episodes have picked selectively from the show's prior continuity. I had no idea. (I was totally surprised to learn that Mulder and Skully had a baby 15 years earlier.)

I was also impressed that, in the very first new episode, the show addressed directly how the zeigeist of the country had changed since the show was last on the air, and that belief in alien abductions and alien invasions in particular, which the show had famously spiked 20 years ago, had lapsed long ago among the general public. As a casual viewer of the "X-Files," I thought it was a clever, modern slant on the material to now suggest that the whole conspiracy was actually being driven by men all along.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think the above really shows how so many out there just know the basics. So even if CC just rebooted everything, I think most people wouldn't care (or even notice). One problem would be that the old stuff (with the lucrative streaming rights) would all no longer make sense, though. Sure some of it could be explained away, but there would just be way too much that wouldn't be able to, and that would be really disappointing.

I'll wait until next week, though, and hopefully CC can redeem this plotline and make it all fit together! :)
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 16th, 2016, 8:52 pm

Update: Just tried to post on ETC from home, and it worked fine! Must have something to do with the settings at work.
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby orodromeus » February 19th, 2016, 11:10 am

That is true, what you are saying. Most viewers, some of them fans even, had a lot of trouble figuring out the mytharc -- even if after years of mystery Carter really spelt things out very, very clearly in Two Fathers/One Son and The Truth. So many wouldn't notice if large parts of the old mytharc were ignored, they would still consider it a success.

Many of Carter's comments have been about moving the mytharc in a new direction, so I am not sure whether what we were presented in My Struggle will be final or not. I certainly hope that the "true truth" is somewhere in the middle. It's ironic, because back in Redux I was very excited at the idea of a human conspiracy using aliens to cover its misdeeds! But now given all the time I've spent on the mythology I'd very much would like for the whole thing to make sense. Let's see...
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby syzygy620 » February 19th, 2016, 6:02 pm

orodromeus wrote:That is true, what you are saying. Most viewers, some of them fans even, had a lot of trouble figuring out the mytharc -- even if after years of mystery Carter really spelt things out very, very clearly in Two Fathers/One Son and The Truth. So many wouldn't notice if large parts of the old mytharc were ignored, they would still consider it a success.

Many of Carter's comments have been about moving the mytharc in a new direction, so I am not sure whether what we were presented in My Struggle will be final or not. I certainly hope that the "true truth" is somewhere in the middle. It's ironic, because back in Redux I was very excited at the idea of a human conspiracy using aliens to cover its misdeeds! But now given all the time I've spent on the mythology I'd very much would like for the whole thing to make sense. Let's see...


Exactly! I'm all for a new direction, and without a doubt the mytharc floundered a bit in the last years, but to essentially contradict what's come before is just disrespectful of all that's come before. I have a feeling the "true truth" lies somewhere in the middle, that Tad O'Malley is half-right, and maybe the cliffhanger will reveal a new direction for the show. Who knows? I just hope CC has the sense to take it in a new direction without retconning things before. There are numerous ways to do that.

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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 19th, 2016, 10:43 pm

Completely agree with both of you! I'm hopeful CC will at least dial back some of it. I mean, after all, vague (and open to interpretation) endings are TXF stock in trade! :)
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby syzygy620 » February 23rd, 2016, 7:23 pm

What exactly does My Struggle/My Struggle II contradict? The government has hoarded and utilized alien technology since Roswell. This was established in the 2nd episode, “Deep Throat.” The idea that alien DNA was spread to citizens through smallpox vaccinations isn’t a stretch at all, not after M&S found the files of everyone’s smallpox vaccinations in S3.

So the syndicate collapsed in S6 and CSM—in collusion with whoever else—turned his plans toward activating a virus designed to wipe out the population. MS/MSII is rather vague on the time table for all this. The idea of a “conspiracy of men” really doesn’t feel like a new direction. First it was that men (the Syndicate) were in collusion with aliens—the black oil, the corn and the bees, etc—and aiding an extraterrestrial takeover of the planet through means of alien-human hybridization. Then the aliens turned on the syndicate, destroying much of the conspiracy. The mythology drifted toward ancient alien theory before introducing the idea of super soldiers, which isn’t really much of a stretch of alien-human hybridization. “The Truth” ended with these super soldiers proliferating the government. Now, we’re told NOT that aliens never existed, of course they did, and NOT that the hybridization project wasn’t real, but that at some point CSM and whoever else decided that a select few would be chosen from the general population to be “spared” and that the population would be essentially wiped out so as to start anew. Hasn’t much of the mythology been a conspiracy of men? At times in collusion, and at times independent of, the aliens?

Of course there are some pretty gaping inconsistencies and contradictions throughout the mythology, but this is nothing new. CC can’t plan, we’ve long known this. So while he jumps around and certainly brings up more questions and plot strands than can ever be expected to be answered, I’m having trouble understanding those that say the Season 10 mytharc completely retcons or destroys the past nine seasons.

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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 25th, 2016, 1:47 pm

syzygy620 wrote:What exactly does My Struggle/My Struggle II contradict? The government has hoarded and utilized alien technology since Roswell. This was established in the 2nd episode, “Deep Throat.” The idea that alien DNA was spread to citizens through smallpox vaccinations isn’t a stretch at all, not after M&S found the files of everyone’s smallpox vaccinations in S3.

So the syndicate collapsed in S6 and CSM—in collusion with whoever else—turned his plans toward activating a virus designed to wipe out the population. MS/MSII is rather vague on the time table for all this. The idea of a “conspiracy of men” really doesn’t feel like a new direction. First it was that men (the Syndicate) were in collusion with aliens—the black oil, the corn and the bees, etc—and aiding an extraterrestrial takeover of the planet through means of alien-human hybridization. Then the aliens turned on the syndicate, destroying much of the conspiracy. The mythology drifted toward ancient alien theory before introducing the idea of super soldiers, which isn’t really much of a stretch of alien-human hybridization. “The Truth” ended with these super soldiers proliferating the government. Now, we’re told NOT that aliens never existed, of course they did, and NOT that the hybridization project wasn’t real, but that at some point CSM and whoever else decided that a select few would be chosen from the general population to be “spared” and that the population would be essentially wiped out so as to start anew. Hasn’t much of the mythology been a conspiracy of men? At times in collusion, and at times independent of, the aliens?

Of course there are some pretty gaping inconsistencies and contradictions throughout the mythology, but this is nothing new. CC can’t plan, we’ve long known this. So while he jumps around and certainly brings up more questions and plot strands than can ever be expected to be answered, I’m having trouble understanding those that say the Season 10 mytharc completely retcons or destroys the past nine seasons.


While you're right that it's always had minor inconsistencies and double-blinds and red herrings and plot problems, most of those could be explained before (see the ETC website, for instance). But there's just SO MUCH that now can't be explained! Let me give you a few (I could go on for hours, but perhaps spotlighting a few will suffice):

- It wasn't the aliens (Purity) that wiped out the Syndicate, it was the Faceless Rebels (who we were told resisted colonization and Purity's takeoever of the entire universe). So how does one explain these Faceless Rebels (probably the same race as the Shapeshifters that served as the Alien Bounty Hunters for the Greys)?

- Why was the WMM killed (by the Syndicate), when he revealed too much to Mulder? Especially if he was just doing an excellent job of lying to him (leading him on with stories of colonization). In other words, before S10 it made sense that he was killed because he'd had pangs of conscience (perhaps seeing his grandkids) and revealed most of the plot to Mulder, but now (if he was just leading Mulder further astray, more "we've been lied to the entire time!") why was he killed?

- How does one explain the hostile actions of Purity that we've seen so many times? We've seen it in its various forms (like the monstrous form that killed people in FTF and "The Beginning") even taking people over. This doesn't jive with the aliens being friendly and it was all men that were conspiring. What of the Neaderthals being taken over in FTF? What of Krycek doing his evil deeds, then finally spewing the Black Oil out of his face so it can slither back into the alien craft? None of these things make sense in view of this larger (it was all men) storyline.

- What were the Alien Replicants (often called Supersoldiers) that had infiltrated so many places of power? What of the Toothpick Man and the Shadow Man and Knowle Rohrer and Shannon MacMahon? The ones who were high up in the FBI and even the NSA? Were these all just hybirds? Why were they vulnerable to magnetite? Some of these characters were invulnerable, others were telepathic, some bled green toxic blood and others bled Black Oil. Are we really to assume that this was ALL just men messing around with alien tech? It all fit together and made sense before (CC even narrated it all out in a secret track on a FTF CD, it's a hidden gem that revealed the entire plotline, but he seems to have forgotten it and decided to change it to work in the newer conspiracy stuff).

Here's some stuff somebody posted on a blog I came across today, that spells out some more (I'm just going to copy and paste):

Bull. What has kept X Files alive for those of us who really, really loved it (not in the nostalgic, hazy sense that Seitz uses to excuse the first and last installments) is the mythology. Yes, we know. The stand-alones were always better. The monsters-of-the-week were always so much better than the mythology episodes. Yada. That might be true, it's subjective. It's a matter of taste. BUT!!! The reason the X-Files is remembered, the reason the X-Files IS the X-Files is because of the mythology. Because of the spine Carter gave to this show. The threaded mythology narratives allowed for the comedy and monster stand-alones! We attached something of ourselves to this show because we wanted to see if Mulder found his sister, we wanted to see why Scully got cancer. We wanted to know what the bees and black oil and intergalactic hitmen and supersoldiers added up to. Sometimes not much. Sometimes it didn't make sense, but that didn't stop us who loved the X-Files mythology. There are scores of websites and talk backs dedicated to making this long-told story make sense. And in varying ways, to varying degrees we have. And then Carter comes along and craps all over us. He strips away most everything that came before. What about Gibson Praise? What about the wonderful idea that we are ALL aliens, that all we needed was the black oil to put us into the larva monster protective form that would eventually give way to the Grey Form? That was so cool! And then, all of a sudden, it's not about that. It was never about that. It seems that might not have happened in this iteration of the X-Files universe. It's about an AIDS-like epidemic that robs us of our immune system so the Evil People can cull the humans of the world and remake it? Besides negating nine seasons of plotting, this is a trope that has been done to death already! But the Evil People negotiating with an alien species (that was already here since pre-history) for a takeover in 2012--that was original (and very creepy). Supersoldiers aligning with some variation of our Earth deities against this alien takeover (with little William appearing as some sort of Jesus-figure)--that was nifty!! Now all William is is a batch of stem cells to cure Mulder. OH. MY. GOD. I am still so angry. Why would Carter do this to his faithful? Why would Seitz praise him for it?

I could go on and on, and would be glad to discuss any of the finer points of the Mythology, as it really is a passion of mine. I think some parts of the old Mytharc will work fine (the abductions and the filed Strughold Mining had, the doctors in traincars and experiments on alien/human hybrids). But SO MUCH other stuff just completely falls apart and makes no sense now (unless in Season 11 we find out that it's not just an ARV hovering over M&S and that's it's truly Purity that's behind it all, perhaps still working with CSM and his cabal).
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Re: Post for Eat the Corn

Postby TruthIsOutThere » February 27th, 2016, 10:03 pm

A guy who just to post here (as Analyzer), posted the following, and he'd love to get the word out on this. So feel free to broadcast this and spread it wherever you can. I think he spot-on nailed it, and I really, really hope FOX hears/reads this before moving on to Season 11. Here's what he wrote (note that it's really long, but quite good):

https://sites.google.com/site/questionsforcc/

Here's just a snippet:

Basically, it was the destruction of the show's mythology I know and love. The mythology being the reason why I became a huge fan of the show in the first place. To clarify, I'm someone who has criticized Chris Carter about some of his storytelling choices in the past, but these were more or less pretty insignificant things that I occasionally complained about here and there. That said, I also defended him numerous times and kept giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunately, what I saw in "My Struggle II" was absolutely insulting, indefensible, and inexcusable. Why Chris Carter thought it would be great to do ... that ... is something I can't understand no matter how hard I try. I'm now very afraid for my favorite TV series, and I feel that my voice needs to be heard. At the same time, my voice actually reflects the anger and disappointment of a huge number of fans, even internationally. Whoever doesn't believe this should simply go and visit any popular discussion forum on the internet where the revival is being discussed, including but not limited to the The X-Files board on IMDb. The same goes for Reddit, Facebook, Tumblr, et cetera.

The purpose of this write-up is actually simple. I would like Chris Carter to read it, and more importantly, I would like someone at FOX to read it. I want FOX to have someone sit down and have a serious, lengthy discussion with Chris Carter about the issues reflected in this piece. To talk to him about his vision for the future of the show, about the importance of continuity, the importance of being true to the characters, the importance of taking the fan base seriously, and of course the importance of not destroying most of what has been previously established throughout nine seasons of the show.
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